Talk:Hellenic Air Force

untitled

Guys, when writing in the ENGLISH wikipedia, use the ENGLISH names for the squadrons, first. thanks See: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English).

George Marselis Draft Sargent, Computer Analyst D'02 Project2501a 12:30, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

That link refers to article titles. Still, you have a point. I'll start reversing the order sometime this week.--Jpbrenna 06:59, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Aircraft Inventory

Please have in mind than when we change the aircraft inventory numbers, we have to use references or else unreferenced changes cannot be accepted. We cannot change the inventory on speculations or even on something we read in a newspaper. Even if the reference is not official, please state it before changing the inventory. Thanks. -->kompikos, 31 March 2008, 02:45 (UTC)

Generations of Fighters

The Eurofighter Typhoon is a 4.5th generation fighter according to the article on fighter jets. I've made some changes in the article with the appropriate reference to that article but it seems the generations continue to be edited in the text. I know that saying 4.5th generation is not literally correct but seems like this is the way fighters are categorized. It actually makes sense in technological terms. The Typhoon and the Rafale lack specific characteristics that determine a 5th generation fighter. The Technology applied to both the F-16 Block 52+, Rafale and Typhoon are something between a 4th and 5th generation fighter (for ex. the fact that all these aircraft do not have full internal ammo and fuel storage bays that make them completely stealth or their engines configuration ). Please take these into account before re-editing.-- kompikos, 17 August 2007, 14:15 (UTC)

4th generation fighters?

• Prime candidates for a 4th generation aircraft, of which acquisition is considered certain, are the Eurofighter Typhoon, F-35 Lightning II (JSF) and Dassault Rafale. Correct me if I'm wrong, but - according to the article on fighter jets - Greece already has 4th generation (and 'generation 4.5') fighters. Look at where Greece's F-16C/D Block 50/52 and Mirage 2000s are on the list.
  • You are correct, I made the appropriate changes in the article -- kompikos, 14 August 2007, 20:40 (UTC)

Dornier Do-28 has been retired

Guys this particular aircraft has been officialy retired from service and only 2 aircraft are kept (semi-operational) for display and exibition reasons only. I have seen this entry go on and off the fleet table many times in the past so I thought I should inform you. Take care -- kompikos 5:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I have no information about it so i post them. no any official ceremony heard for their retirement. Kompiko you have done more than perfect job to all arms of our Armed Forces. i am sure we have the best posted Armed Forces in Wikipedia. John , Athens May 29

NPOV tag

The final section on Turkey may have truth to it, but has no citations as the contributors bias is clearly evident upon reading it. 68.39.174.238 00:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

NPOV Part II

Since 1974, the Turkish state continuously violates Athens FIR flying rules set by ICAO and the Hellenic airspace, resulting in numerous operations of reconnaissance and interception against Turkish fighter jets by the Greek Air Force daily. These operations cause often heroic casualties and loses for the Greek pilots. Amongst the lost pilots are the well known stories of Nikolaos Sialmas (Νικος Σιαλμας), fallen near Agios Eustratios island of Northern Aigean sea and the recent death of Kostas Iliakis (Κωστας Ηλιάκης) who has fallen after a collision with a Turkish F-16 which deliberatelly crashed him as he was trying to stop a what was officially called "spying operation of Turkey towards Crete (Κρητη)" over the island of Karpathos at the South Aigean sea.

1. The FIR of Athens does *NOT* belong to the Greek state. It is under the supervision of the Venizelos Airport.
2. Furthermore, ever since 1998 the ICAO delisted the need for military airplanes to file flight plans.
3. Therefore, there's no violation of the Greek soverinity when the Turkish planes fly outside the 6 miles radius from teretorial waters.

Fair use rationale for Image:Airforce.gif

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BetacommandBot 23:26, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Geetha.png

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Fair use rationale for Image:EMB R-99A.jpg

Image:EMB R-99A.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:50, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

MM-40 Exocet picture

This picture is not related to the Hellenic Air Force, which has no MM-40 in its inventory, and should be deleted from this article. Sv1xv (talk) 15:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Same problem with the US Army Patriot PAC3 and USAF Lantirn on F-15E. What should we do about them? Sv1xv (talk) 14:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

If they are not related directly with the Air Force they should be removed. MilborneOne (talk) 16:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

They are not directly related. Simply, as it is nearly impossible to find or create free pictures of military subjects in Greece, someone added them in the past as the closest available thing. I shall comment them out immediately, and delete them after a few days. Sv1xv (talk) 19:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Today these two images were restored by User:El Greco. I don't want an editors' war here, but User:El Greco should discuss it in the talk page first. Sv1xv (talk) 07:44, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Well User:Sv1xv should removed them in their entirety, rather than turning them into hidden text. That would have prevent further inclusion. _{El Greco}^(talk) 14:35, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I wanted a third person's view before removing them. As you also agree, it's now OK to delete them. Sv1xv (talk) 14:45, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Entering the 21st century

The last paragraph "As of 2007... Sukhoi Su-35 or Su-37" is possibly accurate, but it must be properly referenced, otherwise it remains a speculation and is not compatible with the Wikipedia:Verifiability concept. Sv1xv (talk) 09:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

You can find many references in the greek military press. It is not speculation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.131.1.118 (talk) 11:39, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

So, could you please cite a couple of such references? This is a basic rule of Wikipedia:Verifiability. The STRATEGY article cited is not really clear abt the subject. It would be best if you could cite an article in english from a mainstream UK or USA aviation magazine, but even articles in greek would be acceptable. Sv1xv (talk) 05:12, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Scan0016kom.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Scan0016kom.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Nigel Ish (talk) 21:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC) Nigel Ish (talk) 21:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Most magazine scans by User:Kompikos were deleted today by the administrator User:Bjweeks. Now there is a problem of finding equivalent images to replace them, as photography of military subjects in Greece is not an easy activity.

Sv1xv (talk) 14:34, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Use of material from HAF website

The copyright issues regarding re-use of material from http://www.haf.gr are not specific enough. I sent an e-mail to the webmaster regarding this subject and he replied that material from their web site can be reused as long as the original source is stated. Sv1xv (talk) 07:02, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Therefore coats of arms and similar stuff can be used under a "fair use rationale" for copyrighted material. Photographs, except for exceptional cases, are not acceptable per WP rules. Sv1xv (talk) 09:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Note about Mirage F-1CG

I believe this note does not belong to this article. It is best to move it to the appropriate article Dassault_Mirage_F1#Mirage_F1CG. Any oppinions? Sv1xv (talk) 07:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Agree. MilborneOne (talk) 12:41, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

A-7 NOT in operational storage

There must have been a mistake here. The A-7 is NOT in operational storage. It's fully OPERATIONAL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.202.139.31 (talk) 18:01, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

A-7E is operational, A-7H is in storage. M.Lahanas (talk) 07:09, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Structure and gallery

The structure section is more like a photo gallery and doesnt really communicate the structure at all. Because of the images it becomes unreadable at small screen sizes. I would suggest a more simple list and a bit of explanation might be better for the stucture. The gallery is already far to big and needs pruning (as most images can be seen fom the commons link). Any thoughts. MilborneOne (talk) 15:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I gave up editing this article (Hellenic Air Force) and Hellenic Navy when some editors started overloading the articles with photos. It's childish. Sv1xv (talk) 16:31, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Dear Sv1xv, by "some editors" I presume you refer to me, because both the structure section in the Hellenic Air Force article and the "Inventory" section in the Hellenic Navy article are entirely my work. There is a reason I used photos in both these sections and this is because visual material is a vital part of any encyclopedia and gives an instant visual reference to the reader of the equipment mentioned. Not everybody is a military expert and by no means did I use these photos (which by the way are exclusively from the Wiki Commons) in order to show-off (sort of speak) or make the articles more prestigious. My intend was to categorize, in tables, the information previously provided randomly and fill in any info missing, in reference to the present status of the Forces. I cannot see in any way how this effort is "childish"..! I agree that it could have been presented in an even more "communicative" way, but comparing to the previous status of these sections, I consider them to be a big step. Not to mention the time I devoted. If you look in relevant articles of other countries( for ex. RAF or USN) you will notice every kind of "avatar", "shield", "emblem" etc. ever used by these military branches in the articles AND equipment photos, presented in any possible way so as to create a sense of prestige and power. Why don't you refer to these edits as "childish" too?? In the Greek articles such an attempt was never made and this was not the goal. Not that I consider the RAF for ex. or the USN articles as intentionally overloaded, in my opinion these additions make the articles more communicative and cosmetically solid for an electronic encyclopedia. Anyway, I made my point, I think, and any suggestions are welcome. Childish for me is to state that an other editors work looks "childish" just because you would have done it in an other way. kompikos (talk) 06:00, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Kompikos, of course I mean you and I believe your net contribution to en-wiki in negative. I disagree with the extravagant way you chose to organize and illustrate articles. You don't make them more prestigeous, nor more informative, you just make them overloaded and ugly. You obviously confuse an encyclopedia with a publicity web site. It is a pitty that there is not a critical mass of good editors interested in greek military subjects with a couple of admins between them to enforce a reasonable style. Sv1xv (talk) 08:06, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Inventory today in Air Force

El Greco today our inventory is. Fighters, 32 F-16C/D Block-30 ( 28 -C , 4 -D ), 39 F-16C/D Block-50 ( 31 -C , 8 -D ), 58 F-16C/D Block-52+ ( 38 -C , 20 -D ), 30 F-16C/D Block-52 Adv ( under delivery ) ( 20 -C , 10 -D ), 25 M-2000-5 ( 15 of them bought new and 10 were older M-2000EGM that upgraded to M-2000-5 ), 20 M-2000EGM/BGM ( 17 -EGM, 3 -BGM ), 40 TA/A-7E ( will retire when we deliver all 30 new F-16 ), 35 F-4 PI-2000, 18 RF-4E,

Transport-Fire fighters, 10 C-130H ( 2 of them can carry EW systems ), 5 C-130B, 12 C-27J, 1 C-47 ( its only for historical flights ), 1 YS-11A ( its only for calibration ), 1 Do-28D ( SAR duties, will retire ), 1 ERJ-135 ( VIP ), 1 ERJ-145 ( VIP ), 1 Gulfstream-V ( VIP ), 8 CL-415GR/MP ( 7 -GR, 1 -MP ), 13 CL-215, 12 G-164A, 22 PZL M-18A/BS ( 19 -A , 3-BS )

Trainers, 19 T-41D, 45 T-6A, 40 T-2C/E ( 5 -C , 35 -E ),

Helicopters 11 AB-205A ( SAR ), 4 Bell-212 ( VIP ), 3 A-109E ( MEDEVAC ), 6 AS-532 ( CSAR ), 4 AS-332C1 ( SAR, these helis belong to Coast Guard but operated with HAF help ), Also decision taken for 15 new AS-332C1,

AEW&C ( ,,flying radars,, ), 4 EMB-145H ERIEYE,

UAV, 5 Pegasus-1, 12 Pegasus-2 ( on order ),

MPA ( maritime patrol ), 6 P-3B ( 2 of them grounded, very low availability, belong to navy and operated with HAF help ),

About anti-aircraft systems, weapons, pods are O.K in article and dont need any change.

About future plans. In fighters they are plans for 40 4th generation planes. The fleet of F-16 planned to go for an upgrade. In trainers for 37 new jet trainers to replace the T-2 Buckeye. Also for new piston trainers to replace the T-41D Mescalero. At helis decision taken for 15 new AS-332C1 to replace the AB-205 and Bell-212. The 6 P-3B Orion planned to replace by 5 new planes but this is a Navy decision about the type that will replace them. 2 new AS-332 helis on order for Ministry of Health but will operated by HAF ( ministry has not pilots-structure to operate them alone )

About the EMB-99 aircraft you search their is no such plane. Exist a maritime patrol model of Embraer aircraft called R-99 but we dont have it.

Οπως στα γράφω είναι, πηγή είμαι εγώ αλλά δεν μπορώ να δημοσιεύσω τον ευατό μου. Οτι νομίζεις κάνε. Αν δεν ξέρεις εσύ από αεροπορία βάλε τότε τον Kompiko να ασχολείται που τα ξέρει και με το παραπάνω. Οσες φορές είναι τέλειο το inventory μιλάμε το έχεις χαλάσει αρκετά... πρόσεξε μην τα ,,θαλασσώνεις,, !! Kαλό 15Αυγουστο.

Γιάννης 9/8/2009 Αθήνα —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.75.11.12 (talk) 00:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

...and your source or sources are? You have a burden to provide them. _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:50, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

The inventory proposed by the anonymous editor 85.75.11.12 is much closer to reality than the one in the article. See for example the numbers of CL-415 types. However there is only one airworthy P-3B, three others being grounded due to lack of spares or need for major inspection. The Embraer R-99 family does exist and it is the manufacturer's designation for military ERJ-145 variants (P-99, E-99, R-99). See Embraer R-99. Unfortunately many printed sources about the inventory are obsolete and unreliable. They tend to recycle old information from their competitors and they are unsuitable for use in wikipedia without further processing. Sv1xv (talk) 08:41, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, but where did the anonymous user get this information from? The official HAF website doesn't even list specific numbers. So whether the anon is right or wrong is merely irrelevant.........it's that there is no Verifiability to his claims from a reliable source. Show me the exact link to that information, and I will gladly change it until then, it doesn't meet Wikipedia's criteria. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:05, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

For a relatively reliable source I would recommend Hellenic Defence Report 2009-2010 (Yearbook of the magazine Hellenic Defence & Security) by G. Christogiannakis, Athens, July 2009. Also Hellenic Air Force Yearbook 2009/A by Special Projects Aviation & Defence Editions, Athens, June 2009 (ISSN: 1790-4102). They closely agree with the numbers of the anon editor. Sv1xv (talk) 05:40, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

At the P-3 that i wrote that 2 are grounded... are retired time ago, parked at the Hellenic Aircraft Industry tarmac without engines etc for some years.. Now one P-3 fly. At Greece the AEW&C brazilian aircrafts are called EMB-145H and not E-99/R-99 or something..-99 .. The above inventory is correct, because we had for a long period THE perfect inventory on wikipedia from all the others air forces and now we have a almost nothing inventory i suggest you write at the article the above inventory that is far more better that the article inventory and when you have new infos you want you change what you want.

Γιάννης-John 8/9/2009 Athens —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.75.11.74 (talk) 22:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Whatever the Eriye is called in Greece (HAF was never really consistent in names and serial numbers), the wikilink must point to the proper Wikipedia article for the type Embraer R-99 (military versions), not to Embraer ERJ 145 family (civilian versions). I have fixed all relevant articles, please don't break the links again. Sv1xv (talk) 04:16, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Ranks

According to [[1]] Greek Air Force uses the U.S.A.F. rank system in english speaking papers. Historically the British (RAF) ranks were used until ca. 1967. So, it would be appropriate for present officers to prefer the U.S. rank system: United States Air Force officer rank insignia.Alexikoua (talk) 19:00, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Red Flag

I had to remove the whole paragraph. Please do not write anything about it anymore. Not only it was written in what can only be described as poor English, it was also unreferenced and unsubstantiated. People need to understand that the Red flag organisers do not publish "scores" or anything like that. The references for the performance of the squadron that participated there can only be found in Greek press and there is a huge discrepancy between them. Some say that the score was x, some that the score was y, some that the score was z, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.237.85.229 (talk) 13:01, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Do-not edit air craft inventory list

Its a waste of time editing the list with-out a source ir link. Remember what ever number you put down will NOT change realityRademire (talk) 16:31, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Can you provide an in-line explanation for why the inventory totals don't match the individual numbers provided? Eg there are 24 Transport aircraft listed, but a total of 28; 85 trainer aircraft listed, but a total of 105; and 29 helicopters listed, but a total of 34. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.230.224 (talk) 01:43, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

OF-4 Insignia is "backwords"

It needs to pe flipped horizontally —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigshotnews (talk • contribs) 11:20, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Vandal reversion

I have reverted 2 edits by 188.4.138.171 (talk · contribs), see DIFF. The unreferenced edits here related to military involvement in Afghanistan. If these have any validity, please let me know. Out of a total of 4 edits, the editors 1st and 4th were vandalism at Gaza flotilla clash. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 14:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

T-41

T-41 is still used as trainer.I noticed that after the last edit it is not in the "trainer aircraft" list. GiorgosKak (talk) 21:54, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

• Yes, the T-41 is still in use. However this article (and especially the inventory section) is regularly vandalized by youngsters, I don't want to get involved. SV1XV (talk) 14:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Possible New Rank Images

Is it worth changing the Rank Insignia to the images found here? --ChevronTango (talk) 15:42, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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F-16C/D roles

So Dr.K. took upon himself to revert content that was sourced, and reinstate some dsambiguation links, which was started with changes by Khirurg and no citations were provided. As not to get into an edit war I'm asking any editors to perhaps provide an opposing source regarding the F-16's variants and their roles. Currently Flight Global's World Air Forces 2018 pg. 19 has the C variant under combat and the D is under the training role. Thanks - FOX 52 (talk) 07:16, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Don't make this personal. First, instead of attacking for some minor disambiguation problems, why are you not mentioning that your edit included your personal commentary? Or did you not notice that fact? Perhaps, you even missed my edit-summary. Let's hope so; otherwise you are trying to hide your sloppy edit. Second, use Google, you'll see many results from top sources calling this a combat aircraft. Examples: Its main combat strength consisted of two fighter squadrons with 17-18 F-16C and 4 F-16D fighters., F-16D—two-seat combat and training version of F-16C;, The top operational U.S. air combat systems include the F–16D, F–15E, F–14D, and F/A–18D tactical fighters,, The first aerial victory scored by an F-16 came after the Gulf War, in Decem- ber 1992, when an F-16D of the 363rd TFW shot down an Iraqi MiG-25 that had illegally .... Are these enough or do you need me to do more Googling for you? Dr. K. 07:49, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Ok first of all, the HAF itself lists all its F-16s as "Fighter Aircraft" and not as "Trainer aircraft" [2]. I think the HAF is the most credible source for what aircraft it uses as trainers and which ones it doesn't. This is also backed by various sources [3]. The F-16 is a very expensive and highly capable fighter. To suggest it is used as a exclusively as a trainer is ludicrous. Now, because the F-16D is a two seater, it's conceivable that some are also used for training, but the notion that it is an exclusively trainer aircraft and should be listed as such is absurd. Khirurg (talk) 07:47, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks Dr.K. and Khirurg, sorry if I came off attacking I just wanted the change to be sourced. - Just a side note many Air Forces use their C/D variants in different roles depending on their needs, that's why I was asking a specific source pertaining to the Hellenic Air Force. - Cheers 08:07, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

It's ok. All's well that ends well. Best regards. Dr. K. 14:39, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Neither the US and Israel classify two seat versions (eg B, D) exclusively as trainers. I agree it is correct to list them as combat aircraft.Explainador (talk) 15:44, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

1.8 Political involvement section is problematic.

I was taking a look at the "political involvement" section which some time ago a an editor correctly marked as unverified and disputed (an assessment I agree with). For starters it attempts to contrast other branches and leads by stating: In its early years, the Air Force was considered politically right-wing and royalist; indeed, it was known as the "Royal Hellenic Air Force". The Greek Navy was apparently also called the "Royal Hellenic Navy" and had its name changed with royal removed at the same time with the ending of the Monarchy in Greece. Moreover there is the Royal Danish Air Force, the Royal Norwegian Air Force and many others, that does not make them either right wing or "monarchist." The section is amateurish and filled with vestigial politics and bias. The second half really has to do with strategy and should have more to do with doctrine and considerations and be under such a title (eg: doctrine and considerations) instead of "poltical involvement" anyway. Explainador (talk) 15:32, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Totally agree, as a matter of fact this section is politicised and completely irrelevant to the nature of the article so in my humble opinion it shouldn’t even exist and ideally should be completely deleted. kompikos 1:02 (UTC) 15 February 2019

Changes in article structure, grammar, phrasing, photos position and comment for the inventory.

Dear all,

I have made some extensive changes on the paragraph structure, text flow, English grammar and vocabulary and picture allocation in extensive parts of the page WITHOUT adding new information or deleting old that were verified. I made all these changes having forgotten to login so please atribute all these changes to me.

The purpose was to improve the quality and flow of the text, as well as the English vocabulary and grammar used so it can be pleasantly read in English. The visuals (pictures) were also repositioned to refer to the text.

I have noticed that the inventory DOES NOT include aircraft that are part of the fleet such as the Embraer ERJ-135 for example? Also the structure of the inventory table seem to be a bit random (for example the aerial firefighters section is “dropped” in the middle of other major combat units etc). I think the inventory needs to be properly remodelled to improve the quality of the table and the article.

Many thanks —>kompikos (talk) 00:43, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

This is the format that is used for all inventory tables, and if you wish to add the Embraer ERJ-135, please make sure you have a reliable source - Thanks FOX 52 (talk) 02:05, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

FOX 52, I suppose the official HAF website is not a reliable source for you then? The format is not similar to the RAF or USAF format for example. They do not use an inventory table so I am afraid there is no specific standard. I am only suggesting that the categories should be arranged in an order that makes more sense (the warfare units first and the auxiliary or alternative role units such as the firefighters for example, after). Thank you. kompikos (talk) 15:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

images in the tables creates formatting issues, further crowds that article with to many pictures going against WP:IMAGEMOS. As where there is already a gallery. (And if needed I can dig up the discussion regarding this issue & the consensus against image/tables) - FOX 52 (talk) 05:53, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Waste of time

@FOX52

I do not care about removing the images from the tables but reverting the whole format and wasting a day’s work to create the table of retired and historical aircraft is beyond me, You could have only removed the images if this creates the format and clutter problem and not the entire table, just because you can’t be bothered to just remove the images. It is one thing to oversee the format of the page and another thing to waste everyone’s time. If the idea is to move from free users editing of Wikipedia to a few “master” editors that can’t be bothered reviewing what they should and shouldn’t revert, then it’s a complete waste of time, time which I do not have. At least re-enter the historical aircraft table without the images. Or is it too much work for you? Thanks for nothing.

Kompikos (talk) 11:26, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

The retired /historic table/list is currently very incomplete - in addition, it is unclear what the scope actually is - is it just the Hellenic Air Force? does it include the pre-1930 Hellenic Army Air Service and Naval Air Service? Does it include the current Army and Navy air arms? If made complete it would probably overwhelm the article, and would be better split off to form a separate article.Nigel Ish (talk) 12:55, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

this table didn't even exist before yesterday. The retired aircraft were part of a cluttered paragraph that had references from 2015. So the table's scope is to organise that clutter. Now, it may be incomplete but the purpose is to only include notable HAF and pre-1930s Hellenic Army Air Service weapons that are notable and not all possible aircraft that had been retired from HAF or the Hellenic Armed Forces. I agree it should be split, or at least stay as is after your modification, a separate section of the current article.--Kompikos (talk) 15:47, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Nike Hercules armed A-7s??

The article currently says "Until the late 1980s the Air Force deployed Nike-Hercules Missiles armed with U.S. nuclear warheads using the LTV TA-7C Corsair II." The Nike Hercules is a large surface-to-air missile. While it possible that the HAF's Nike Hercules missiles had US nuclear warheads that could be fitted in times of dire need and even that the HAF's A-7s could also have access to US owned nuclear bombs, one thing that is certain is that the Nike Hercules would be carried by the A-7s as the article currently states. In addition, the whole paragraph is completely unsourced.Nigel Ish (talk) 13:06, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Fixed. Removed until referenced as, although nuclear warheads were deployed as part of the NATO nuclear sharing program, there is no evidence that Nike-Hercules were ever in Greece. --Kompikos (talk) 20:35, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Political involvement section

I really cannot see the purpose of this section. It is highly politicised and frankly, I cannot see how it interests anybody who visits this article. It's factual integrity is disputed, it expresses possible personal opinions of whoever introduced it and does not reflect the politically neutral (official) position of the Greek Armed forces since 1975, creating the false impression that the Hellenic Air Force is politicised. Above all, it has no educational purpose, it just expresses the personal view of the author. I think it should be completely removed from the article, but cannot take the liberty to do this alone unless more editors agree. Many thanks. --Kompikos (talk) 16:12, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

I just wanted to open discussion about this section. I agree to be removed (eventually, to be included under that "History" section, as it covers period of time before 1981). Nubia86 (talk) 22:52, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Update. I checked again that section and I removed it, I agree with editor Kompikos arguments. Nubia86 (talk) 23:02, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Conscript sergeant

In the "Other Ranks" section, there's no mention and image of the Conscript Sergeant rank. Take a look at: https://www.haf.gr/staff/ranks/ 85.74.34.137 (talk) 17:35, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Dead Reference Links

I've found some Ref. links that are dead and needed to be replaced with live links. IdanST (talk) 14:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 10: "Hellenic Air Force history – Middle East". HAF.gr. Archived from the original on 18 July 2009. Retrieved 6 February 2010.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Although the Ref. link is dead, the archive link is live. IdanST (talk) 14:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 11: "335 Μοίρα Βομβαρδισμού". HAF.gr. Archived from the original on 29 May 2010. Retrieved 12 February 2010.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Although the Ref. link is dead, the archive link is live. IdanST (talk) 14:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 12: "330 Μοίρα". HAF.gr. Archived from the original on 2 May 2010. Retrieved 7 February 2010.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Although the Ref. link is dead, the archive link is live. IdanST (talk) 14:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 13: "346 Μοίρα". HAF.gr. Archived from the original on 20 April 2010. Retrieved 7 February 2010.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Although the Ref. link is dead, the archive link is live. IdanST (talk) 14:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 14: "338 Μοίρα Δίωξης – Βομβαρδισμού;". HAF.gr. Archived from the original on 1 March 2009. Retrieved 29 July 2009.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Although the Ref. link is dead, the archive link is live. IdanST (talk) 14:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 16: "Hellenic Air Force weapons – F-16C/D Block 52+ Fighting Falcon". HAF.gr. Archived from the original on 16 May 2009. Retrieved 29 July 2009.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Although the Ref. link is dead, the archive link is live. IdanST (talk) 14:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 17: "340 Μοίρα;". HAF.gr. Archived from the original on 14 June 2009. Retrieved 9 February 2010.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Although the Ref. link is dead, the archive link is live. IdanST (talk) 14:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 24: "F-16 Greece". LockheedMartin.com. 2 March 2018. Retrieved 13 December 2019.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 27: "Lockheed Martin contracted to upgrade Greek F-16s". Janes | Latest defence and security news. Archived from the original on 21 December 2018. Retrieved 21 December 2018.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Although the Ref. link is dead, the archive link is live. IdanST (talk) 14:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 28: "Greece receives first upgraded F-16s". Janes | Latest defence and security news. 13 September 2022.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 44: "Greece to receive F-35s meant for Turkey after S-400 test". DefenseWorld.net. Retrieved 5 December 2020.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 61: "Greece approves $14B 5-yr modernization plan, to receive Rafales in mid-2021". DefenseWorld.net.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:14, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 63: Jennings, Gareth (25 January 2021). "Greece signs for Rafale combat aircraft". Janes.com. Retrieved 26 March 2022.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:15, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 82: "Greece and Turkey: offensive and defensive balance of air power in 2012". Balkanalysis.com. Archived from the original on 9 January 2018. Retrieved 8 January 2018.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Although the Ref. link is dead, the archive link is live. IdanST (talk) 14:17, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 96: "Israel, Greece in talks to establish €1.4B pilot training school". DefenseWorld.net. Retrieved 25 December 2020.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 118: "The Minister of National Defence Evangelos Apostolakis at the Ceremony for the Acceptance of New Training Aircrafts [sic] [sic] by the Hellenic Air Force". Ministry of National Defence. Retrieved 13 April 2020.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 130: "Greece Leases Israeli Heron Surveillance Drones". www.defenseworld.net. Retrieved 20 January 2022.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:22, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 132: "WAF 1955". flightglobal.com. Retrieved 12 December 2017.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:22, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 133: "WAF 1971". flightglobal.com. Retrieved 12 December 2017.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:22, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 134: "WAF 1975". flightglobal.com. Retrieved 12 December 2017.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:23, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ref. 139: "Ελλάδα: Πτώση μαχητικού F-4 Phantom - Σε εξέλιξη έρευνα για τους χειριστές". SigmaLive.com. Retrieved 30 January 2023.

A dead link. IdanST (talk) 14:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)